AMT Tech Trends: Much Additive
Updated: Apr 15
Release date: 25 October 2019
Ben and Steve just got back from travel. Steve is pooped and Ben isn’t because he’s a stone-cold robot. Stephen talks about their trip to Quality Show 2019, what he learned and some shopping for the testbed. Stephen has restored his confidence in his ability to cut brass and looks forward to finishing the watch dial, announcing his next steps. Ben brings up an article regarding AI image classifiers and him and Steve discuss the relevance of Google’s (Alphabet) AI and IBM’s Watson. Stephen brings up a new tool for tracking standards in additive manufacturing. Ben talks about some additive startup challenge. There was a lot of additive.
Benjamin Moses: 00:13 Hello everybody, and welcome to the Tech Trends Podcast, where we discuss the latest manufacturing technology research and news. We have a sponsor today, Steve.
Stephen LaMarca: 00:20 Awesome.
Benjamin Moses: 00:21 This episode is sponsored by the MT 360 Conference. The conference is an intersection of manufacturing, software and hardware IOT. They have a great series of speakers, partly because I was a content manager in the beginning, but let’s not get into that. The speakers range from large companies and startups focusing on different technologies, use cases and partnerships. Go to mt360conference to see the speaker lineup and the technologies and the virtual factory.
Benjamin Moses: 00:46 I am Benjamin Moses, the director of Manufacturing Technology, and I’m here with?
Stephen LaMarca: 00:50 Stephen LaMarca, Manufacturing Technology analyst of AMT.
Benjamin Moses: 00:54 Steve, how are you doing today, man?
Stephen LaMarca: 00:55 I’m doing well. Are you … you do not … I’m like miffed at how energetic you are today. I mean, and now I’m sure our listeners would be like, he doesn’t sound energetic at all. Ben is … trust … you know, for somebody as neutral in promotion as you are, you’re really energetic today, and I am just pooped after the conference yesterday.
Benjamin Moses: 01:17 Yeah, it was a long day. So doing a one day trip up to Chicago from D.C. definitely wore me out partly because … the only reason I’m kind of energetic in your viewpoint is I’m hardened. I’ve lived this late night lifestyle because it’s not like I’m out partying, it’s just, I’m doing chores and stuff til 11:00 every night.
Stephen LaMarca: 01:34 When did you wake up yesterday morning?
Benjamin Moses: 01:36 Yesterday morning? Normal time, 5:00.
Stephen LaMarca: 01:37 5:00? Okay.
Benjamin Moses: 01:37 Yeah.
Stephen LaMarca: 01:38 I did too, and it’s no longer the normal time for me. For my first few years at AMT, for like two or three years, I was waking up at 5:30, and yesterday I woke up at 5:00, after all of this year I’ve been waking up at like 7:00.
Benjamin Moses: 01:53 Yeah. I think part of the problem is just being on a plane, also. That just physically drains me. I did take a nap on the plane.
Stephen LaMarca: 01:58 Yeah. Oh, it’s awful. I’m great at falling asleep for like the first half of a plane ride.
Benjamin Moses: 02:02 Yeah. But it’s not restful. It’s painful.
Stephen LaMarca: 02:04 It is painful because you wake up because your bum hurts. Those seats are great for the first half hour maybe hour and, but because you can’t move laterally at all, you know, whatever.
Benjamin Moses: 02:15 Right. I’m going to complain to the airline industry. Fix your seats.
Stephen LaMarca: 02:18 They’re getting better. I will say that.
Benjamin Moses: 02:20 I don’t think so.
Stephen LaMarca: 02:20 They’re putting chargers in them. They’re not comfortable. Comfort is not getting better.
Benjamin Moses: 02:24 The technology-
Stephen LaMarca: 02:25 And I don’t think it’s going to get better.
Benjamin Moses: 02:26 Correct. Yeah.
Stephen LaMarca: 02:27 You just have to spend more.
Benjamin Moses: 02:27 Yeah, true.
Stephen LaMarca: 02:29 But at least they’re putting chargers in it.
Benjamin Moses: 02:30 That’s handy.
Stephen LaMarca: 02:31 That’s really nice.
Benjamin Moses: 02:33 Welcome. So what’s going on in the test bed, Steve?
Stephen LaMarca: 02:35 So the test bed. You know, we mentioned that we went to a show yesterday.
Benjamin Moses: 02:39 Yes.
Stephen LaMarca: 02:39 We went to a Quality Show just outside of Chicago in Rosemont, Illinois. And we were there for two reasons, to put our fingers on the pulse of metrology and inspection, and in quality assurance technologies, and it was cool. It was really informative to me. You knew most of what was going on there, so I got to learn from you and the demonstrations onsite at the show. So that was a great experience for me, and I’m very thankful for it. That was the first purpose of being there. Second purpose, we were doing a little bit of shopping.
Benjamin Moses: 03:09 We were. We were window shopping.
Stephen LaMarca: 03:11 We were looking for some top dollar stuff and for some, essentially just tool purchasing. But we are looking to … we’ve got the robot on the way. We’ve got a five axis milling machine now. Eventually we’re going to need, for a fully automated and integrated cell, which will be the final form of the test bed and then some, we’re going to need inspection for sure. So we were looking at non contact metrology equipment, 3D, that can do surface stuff, topography-
Benjamin Moses: 03:49 And there’s a couple of reasons for that. One of the main reasons, we want to automate the cell as much as possible. And I feel that, and we have a significant cost constraint considering it’s a test bed for us. So between the constraint of the cost and how we’re going to automate it, plus we have a robot arm on the way, I definitely feel that going non contact might be the-
Stephen LaMarca: 04:12 Absolutely.
Benjamin Moses: 04:12 … meet those constraints.
Stephen LaMarca: 04:14 Yeah. And so far I think our options, one company that we looked at, one of the first booths we looked at had a pretty affordable solution. It’s still out … all of them are a little outside of our price range, which is unrealistic, I’ll add. From attending the show we did learn that our price range is a little unrealistic, so either the technology’s going to get better and stay the same price, or the market’s going to surplus and it’s going to get less expensive, which is what I’m predicting with robots. That’s besides the point, though.
Stephen LaMarca: 04:47 But what we were looking at, what we saw was that one unit that was, actually had a platform, was a robot would put something on that rotary table and then it would be a non contact visual inspection of the part. And it was really high speed. That was a cool thing we looked at. The other thing would be, the robot picks up a hand scanner and then uses the scanner around the part and we utilize the rotary table of the milling machine we already have to inspect the part, which is another possibility. It would require a little bit more implementation of software and there would be a lot of troubleshooting to get it working right in the beginning, but it’s probably closer to where we’re heading-
Benjamin Moses: 05:37 Yeah, I think so, definitely.
Stephen LaMarca: 05:39 … with inspection. But it was cool. We saw a lot of great options.
Benjamin Moses: 05:43 It was.
Stephen LaMarca: 05:44 And just … there was a lot. For such a small show, there was a lot.
Benjamin Moses: 05:49 Yeah. And it was good to understand where the market is headed in terms of technology trends also, but the physical assets and the digital side now, so it’s good to understand the number of companies that were presenting digital technologies. And we actually interviewed one that gave us really good information on kind of the state of standards within quality. It was good information. And it was also good to see kind of, hey, hand tools are still required, right? You still-
Stephen LaMarca: 06:10 Hand tools are absolutely still required.
Benjamin Moses: 06:12 … sometimes just keeping it old school, keeping with-
Stephen LaMarca: 06:14 Yeah. And speaking of old school, I also … you pointed out the CMM doing a probe change, old school and using, I don’t know what the terms are, but it used this stick to turn the quick change knobs to do a probe change. It was serious automated integration of something that should not be automated.
Benjamin Moses: 06:39 Yeah. So I remember a long, long time ago we had this old horizontal machine that we were using for a long time. And it had a rotary table that we wanted to add to it. Or we had a rotary table we were going to add to it. And it was a manual indexing rotary table, so what did we do? We didn’t connect a motor to the rotary table. We said we’re just going to have the head extend further, manually push down on the plunger to index it around, go back and do the cut on that new way. So that concept of having the machine physically interact with another mechanical system is a really interesting shortcut. And it was really interesting to see that as a-
Stephen LaMarca: 07:13 It is so entertaining-
Benjamin Moses: 07:14 … being sold.
Stephen LaMarca: 07:15 … to see how advanced this industry is, yet also how MacGyvering it is.
Benjamin Moses: 07:26 [crosstalk 00:07:26] right.
Stephen LaMarca: 07:27 I’m losing my vocabulary right now, I’m just still so tired.
Benjamin Moses: 07:31 That’s awesome. It was a good event, though.
Stephen LaMarca: 07:32 And the other thing that we got to see was dial test indicators.
Benjamin Moses: 07:36 Yeah, yeah, that’s what we were looking for in there, yeah.
Stephen LaMarca: 07:37 I want to buy one for the pocket Pocket NC. I mean, it can’t be more than a couple hundred bucks, hopefully under a hundred. I think that’s not too unrealistic to ask.
Benjamin Moses: 07:46 And the need for that is, we have an edge finder so we can define where it is. I mean, we’ve run into a couple instances where we need to verify the part and the flatness and perpendicularity, so we’ll be able to do that with the dial test indicator.
Stephen LaMarca: 07:58 A dial test indicator would, going back, talking back to the test bed, a dial test indicator would be so helpful in cutting these brass watch dials. But let’s talk about the brass watch dials. And machining the brass watch face has been more successful than I anticipated a couple weeks ago. Yeah, it’s gummy, it’s not as perfect as when I cut Delrin-
Benjamin Moses: 08:24 Sure, it’s brass.
Stephen LaMarca: 08:24 … but Delrin’s, you know, we’re talking different animals here. And I’m limited by the max speed of the machine spindle, which is 10K. And remember, when I went to the watch factory in PA they were like, yeah, we don’t go below 20K. But I’m happy with the surface finish of what will be face of the new watch dial. So the next steps are just drilling a center hole so the hands can be mounted to the watch. I’m going to … the next step after that will be cutting some indices into the dial, a 12:00 indicator, a 6:00, a 3:00 and a 9:00, and I may even do the other hours as well. It depends on how clean I want the dial to look. And then the last step is cutting a chapter ring and then removing the dial from the Delrin. Which I have a feeling it’s going to be harder than I think it’s going to be because that brass, I was … I got to pat myself on the back. I secured that brass onto the Delrin workholding. That soft jaw is not letting go anytime soon.
Benjamin Moses: 09:35 I’ll bring in my heat gun.
Stephen LaMarca: 09:36 Yes. That will help.
Benjamin Moses: 09:37 All right.
Stephen LaMarca: 09:38 Loctite makes some serious epoxy.
Benjamin Moses: 09:40 We’ll have to do it outside. It may smell inside the office.
Stephen LaMarca: 09:43 Oh, yeah, that’s a good point. Well, we have the balcony right there.
Benjamin Moses: 09:47 Yeah. That’s a little shady.
Stephen LaMarca: 09:48 Oh, yeah. We don’t want building to listen to this.
Benjamin Moses: 09:50 No.
Stephen LaMarca: 09:50 Hopefully they don’t listen to the podcast.
Benjamin Moses: 09:52 Also, and that’s a good update, I’m looking forward to that. And then we got some development stuff going in the works so we can go do some complex machining, hopefully at the end of the year also.
Stephen LaMarca: 10:01 Yes.
Benjamin Moses: 10:01 So I’m excited to transition back into the Delrin.
Stephen LaMarca: 10:04 Absolutely, me too.
Benjamin Moses: 10:06 Awesome. Going to get into some articles here, Steve?
Stephen LaMarca: 10:08 Yeah. Let’s hear it. What’s the first one you got on the docket?
Benjamin Moses: 10:10 The first one I got is about artificial intelligence. That’s been a hot topic obviously for a long time. And in manufacturing it’s growing quite a bit. But what I do want to talk about is understanding the black box of artificial intelligence. So the idea of artificial intelligence is fairly fuzzy to most people. The idea is, I put in data, it does something, and then I get results back. That’s … you know, your input output diagram. And that little black box, nobody fully understands what’s going on because you put in data, you call in a command line, and you get say an image or results of something that you asked for. And what the going trend in artificial intelligence, the practitioners of artificial intelligence is, they want to understand what the tool or what the algorithm is doing.
Benjamin Moses: 11:01 So Google Ace is a new tool, it’s called automated concept based explanation. So what they want to do is have the algorithm tell the user basically what they did, showing their work. So in this case they’d walk through a scenario where it’s classifying images. So if you put an image through this tool, it tells you is it a cat, is it a ball. So in this case they go through a volcano, lava, cinema characters like a cinema billboard and characters of an alphabet, baseball.
Stephen LaMarca: 11:36 This has been around, hasn’t it?
Benjamin Moses: 11:38 Yeah, yeah.
Stephen LaMarca: 11:38 You can use this in Google Image search.
Benjamin Moses: 11:40 Yeah. So the idea of putting these images in and then telling Google, or having this algorithm tell you what it is, that’s been around for a long time. But the tool that they’re doing is, it’s breaking down the image and it’s telling you what part of the image is most relevant to classify as a tennis ball. So for example, let’s go use the example of the tennis ball itself.
Stephen LaMarca: 12:00 Oh, cool.
Benjamin Moses: 12:01 It shows you which is the most priority, which is the most relevant port of the image that it’s going to classify as a tennis ball. So for example, it’s using the green skin, it’s using, like a P is using Wilson as part of the classifier. You know, back to … they have a carousel example. The one I did was the ambulance and the basketball team. So one of the most important things of understanding what was most relevant was the description of the car itself. You know, the tires, the word ambulance, the lights. So it’s very interesting that the interrogation of the algorithm itself, how it got to that state is a growing trend to understand what the algorithm is doing.
Benjamin Moses: 12:46 There’s a big concern about biases, I think is to help to understand what portion of the image and the classifier is most relevant that’s driving the algorithm to that result, so they can understand if there’s a bias. Because in the end, these classifiers are working based on data that they’ve been trained on, and there’s a big concern on understanding what data that they’re training, and if there’s a bias. Because for example, the training data has some human input also, so they’re concerned about understanding if there’s some human bias in developing that training set.
Stephen LaMarca: 13:19 Yeah. I mean, and you and I have had Google’s AI and machine learning technology in our pockets for the past year or so with the camera on the Google Pixels.
Benjamin Moses: 13:28 Exactly, yep. And so to summarize the article, automatic concept based explanation that automates and extracts and human meaningful visual concepts informing a model’s prediction. So I thought that was pretty useful. And then there’s a bunch of other tools like IBM has one. Actually, there’s a video-
Stephen LaMarca: 13:43 Okay. What does IBM have?
Benjamin Moses: 13:44 The IBM AI’s Explainability 360 Toolkit. The worst title in the world, but that’s exactly what it does. Microsoft has Interpret ML. And actually, Microsoft has a pretty good video that I think also talks about the interpretability toolkit. So they have a suite of other toolkits that help you interpret what’s going on in the data and in the algorithm.
Stephen LaMarca: 14:08 I feel like Google’s been really killing it lately with AI development and also the usefulness and usability of AI with the search engine and on their phones, the implementation on their phones, as for … it goes back to when I was in public school I think, to hearing about IBM Watson. IBM Watson was like the first mainstream AI. You know, seeing it on Jeopardy or Who Wants to be a Million … I don’t know, one of those game shows and just thinking okay, this is AI but how do I know it’s not like somebody in the back stage controlling it.
Benjamin Moses: 14:45 Is calling in?
Stephen LaMarca: 14:45 Like how do I use this AI? What does this even mean? I play with AI when I play video games and it’s like, that’s not AI. That’s an NPC. I’m so glad they changed the acronyms around.
Benjamin Moses: 14:55 Oh, one thing I do want to note about that IBM Watson thing. That’s something we’ve been using in our own tool for Tech Trends. We analyze the data first-
Stephen LaMarca: 15:03 Right. Tech Trends uses Watson and it’s great.
Benjamin Moses: 15:04 … and it’s working really well. One thing that I’ve noticed that, so we’re doing a project with America Makes and you’ll talk about America Makes later on, where we’re helping them analyze different papers and categorizing it based on their critical technology and swimlanes. So we’re using … we actually analyzed a bunch of different machine learning tools to help classify those papers, and only one tool stood out that you can define your own categories. All the other tools use their standard categories. And defining your own set, there was only one tool that allowed that at this current state.
Benjamin Moses: 15:35 So I found that really interesting. I agree with that, that Google’s been doing a really good job and using a broad set of tools and seeing what IBM would have been really happy with that dataset, those tools.
Stephen LaMarca: 15:44 Right. Google’s just easier to access because it’s … you go to Google.com, you Google something.
Benjamin Moses: 15:46 It’s got … yeah. So it’s got the consumer side being able to access it. IBM’s got a really good backend for-
Stephen LaMarca: 15:52 We use IBM’s Watson-
Benjamin Moses: 15:53 Yeah. We’ve been using that.
Stephen LaMarca: 15:55 … on Tech Trends because Tech Trends is powered by Watson among other things, but [crosstalk 00:15:58]
Benjamin Moses: 15:57 And Microsoft’s pretty cool too, for their platform. And we’re just now getting into using Amazon, so we’ve been testing out a whole bunch and it’s been really exciting.
Stephen LaMarca: 16:06 Yeah. That’s amazing.
Benjamin Moses: 16:08 So tell me about your article, what you got there?
Stephen LaMarca: 16:09 All right. So America Makes. You mentioned America Makes earlier, and America Makes is one of the manufacturing USA institutes, but the title of this article is America Makes an ANSI, which MTConnect, I’m going to throw in a shameless plug real quick, MTConnect is now-
Benjamin Moses: 16:26 ANSI accredited.
Stephen LaMarca: 16:26 Well, it’s ANSI accredited as of last year, but version 1.4 of MTConnect came out this year, and it is officially this year, the version 1.4 was the first version of MTConnect which is ANSI accredited, and it’s now available to-
Benjamin Moses: 16:41 Awesome, that’s cool.
Stephen LaMarca: 16:42 … MTConnect users. But anyway, back to the article. American Makes and ANSI Launch an Online Portal for Tracking Additive Manufacturing Standards.
Benjamin Moses: 16:50 Cool.
Stephen LaMarca: 16:51 This is a big deal.
Benjamin Moses: 16:52 It is.
Stephen LaMarca: 16:52 You know, the largest bottleneck in additive manufacturing is standardization. There’s no standards for it. And while this article doesn’t necessarily announce that oh look, we’ve got some standards for it, maybe there are, I haven’t checked out the online portal yet. But the online portal is a tool for tracking the development of standards for additive manufacturing, and that’s a big deal. That’s going to be really helpful to a lot of people. And it’s going to be helpful not only to people wanting to learn about the standards being developed for additive, it’s going to help the people developing the standards for additive, make all of their work known and maybe generate some, build some traction for it and get it to where it wants to be.
Benjamin Moses: 17:42 Tim and I have talked about this a little bit, too because Tim is involved with America Makes.
Stephen LaMarca: 17:45 Sure.
Benjamin Moses: 17:46 And that’s one of the [inaudible 00:17:47] so there are a lot of standards in additive, and that’s one of the value of that tool is that being able to understand the whole universe of the standards within additive is something that doesn’t exist now. So their tool is trying basically to put their hands around this and make it easier for users that are getting into it. So it helps further adoption for additive, and for new technologies that’ll hopefully develop because we can see gaps in the standard landscape. So I thought it was pretty cool
Stephen LaMarca: 18:17 Yeah, it is really cool.
Benjamin Moses: 18:18 That’s awesome.
Stephen LaMarca: 18:20 Was there one more thing I wanted to say about that?
Benjamin Moses: 18:23 If not, I can talk about Formnext.
Stephen LaMarca: 18:24 Tell us about Form.
Benjamin Moses: 18:25 Formnext.
Stephen LaMarca: 18:26 Formnext.
Benjamin Moses: 18:27 I feel like there should be a thunderclap after saying
that. So it’s a-
Stephen LaMarca: 18:31 Lightning, lightening, lightening.
Benjamin Moses: 18:32 It’s a new show in Frankfurt, Germany that’s going to talk about additive technology, so similar to Rapid or SFF here. So what they’ve done is they have a startup award and they’ve down selected to five startup companies that are European based. So we’ve got one from Belgium, we’ve got one from Latvia, one German, two Germans and one from Switzerland. So I understand there’s a slew of European companies getting into additive, which is great. So I just want to highlight some of the cool technologies that they are talking about here.
Benjamin Moses: 19:06 So the Belgium based company Additive Lab is going to develop a simulation software for additive specifically for metals. I thought that was pretty useful particularly with distortion and understanding porosity, hopefully they understand that so that they can go layer by layer and understand what’s happening at each layer in their simulation. There’s another one, the Latvian company is Exponential Technology, I guess. I guess they went with that name. They’re talking about using … understanding the full scope of processing additive, so the core of course is the printing of metal components, but they’re also transitioning their work flow to understand what’s required for CNC. So developing a additive … I’m sorry, and adaptive process for additive manufacturing, and including any post machining operations.
Benjamin Moses: 20:01 There’s a German company, Glassomer, that’s looking at 3D glass printing, which I think that’s a pretty cool new technology, new material to start printing. And I do remember reading say about three years ago, research on-
Stephen LaMarca: 20:16 MIT.
Benjamin Moses: 20:17 … printing silicon, right.
Stephen LaMarca: 20:18 Oh, I don’t know that one. I remember when MIT was printing glass vases.
Benjamin Moses: 20:23 Yeah, yeah. So it’s very similar.
Stephen LaMarca: 20:24 And that was really cool. And they had rotating lights above each vase to show the way the light refracts through the printed glass.
Benjamin Moses: 20:32 Exactly, and that’s the biggest technology implementation of why would you want to print glass, or you know, is to be able to change the-
Stephen LaMarca: 20:43 Think about how complex the lenses could be.
Benjamin Moses: 20:44 Yeah, exactly. So you build the change in refraction throughout the lens instead of putting different lenses-
Stephen LaMarca: 20:49 Yeah, you use different types of glass with different indices, strengths indices of refraction. And then you can make a compound lens that compensates for itself-
Benjamin Moses: 20:59 Exactly. So there’s a lot of potential there.
Stephen LaMarca: 21:03 Yeah. These are wild.
Benjamin Moses: 21:03 So they’re a startup. Hopefully they’re around for a couple years, hopefully they sustain. And there’s another one from Germany again, Laser Melting Innovations. What they’re doing is low cost metal printing targeted for small and medium sized companies. Maybe a desktop.
Stephen LaMarca: 21:18 Hope so.
Benjamin Moses: 21:19 We’ll see. So they have cost effective diode lasers and a smaller form factor. One interesting thing that I do take away from that last one is, I don’t think a lot of people understand the health implications of additives in their homes or in their small offices.
Stephen LaMarca: 21:35 Go on.
Benjamin Moses: 21:35 So particularly for the plastics. And that’s you know, plastic printers has been going on for a while. You’re melting the plastic. There’s going to be some level of out gas when that occurs.
Stephen LaMarca: 21:44 Oh, yeah, there’s going to be fumes.
Benjamin Moses: 21:45 There’s going to be some level of fumes. I don’t think that the consumer industry, or the consumer population understands what’s required, and I don’t think there’s a lot of information given to the consumer on reducing this health risk. There’s a couple of companies that do laser engraving and stuff like that, and they provide add on stuff to help purify the air as it’s printing, which I think is a good way to approach solving that problem of understanding the health risks involved. Because of, they clean the air and they say if you’re not going to buy this add on, vent into open atmosphere or things like that. But if I just went out and bought a desktop 3d printer, I don’t think there’s very good documentation on the health precautions I should take.
Stephen LaMarca: 22:30 Right, yeah.
Benjamin Moses: 22:31 But it’s interesting.
Stephen LaMarca: 22:32 I’m sure California has something to say on it.
Benjamin Moses: 22:33 I’m sure there’s some article related to that. Spectroplast located in Switzerland, a spinoff from Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, they’re 3d printing silicones for pretty high sureness, looks like, and I guess they’re doing all colors. So this would be more of the non metallic, being able to do various colors and a higher hardness level. That’s cool. I’m curious to see who’s going to be the winner. And this was taken from the Additive Report, which we’ll put a link to in the show notes. Do you have … well, I’ve got-
Stephen LaMarca: 23:11 Nope, that was it.
Benjamin Moses: 23:12 That was it?
Stephen LaMarca: 23:12 Yeah. I think.
Benjamin Moses: 23:13 Awesome. That was three articles. we went through that pretty well.
Stephen LaMarca: 23:16 Is this record time for us?
Benjamin Moses: 23:18 No, we’re doing all right on time.
Stephen LaMarca: 23:19 Nice, good.
Benjamin Moses: 23:21 Thanks Steve, it was great.
Stephen LaMarca: 23:22 You’re welcome.
Benjamin Moses: 23:23 I want to talk about our sponsor again. This episode is sponsored by the MT 360 Conference. Again, it’s the intersection of manufacturing software and hardware IOT, super great series lineup. So we’re going fast and quick on the speakers for this year. We have a really good conference and a theater in Santa Clara, and we’ve got a great virtual factory and we’re splitting the time up pretty evenly amongst the two. And the conference lineup has a huge slew of speakers that are going to give 10 minute presentations, 20 minute presentations, on either technology or implementations that they’ve done on those technologies, and also when we talk about understanding technologies, it’s useful to understand developing partnerships to help implement or execute those new technologies. And all of that will be discussed at the conference. Go to mt360conference to see the speakers and technologies and the virtual factory.
Benjamin Moses: 24:15 So if you want to know, follow more on news and research you can follow me on LinkedIn, and where can they find you, Steve?
Stephen LaMarca: 24:20 They can find me at Adventures of an Amateur Machinist on my blogspot website, which is swarfysteve.blogspot.com. It’ll be in the
Benjamin Moses: 24:32 Awesome. Bye, everybody.
Stephen LaMarca: 24:33 Bye.